Thucydides vs Plato

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Compare and contrast Thucydides’ and Socrates’ analyses of the fate of Athenian democracy in war, of why the Athenians went to war, and of how and why they failed. The Peloponnesian War was the turning point in Athenian hegemony in Ancient Greece. It was fought in 431 B. C. between the Delian League, led by Athens, and the Peloponnesian League led by Sparta. According to Thucydides, Athens’ imposing hegemonic status and its overwhelming quest for more power made the Peloponnesian War and Athens’s eventual fall from power inevitable.

Despite the Athenians having a far more superior navy and being considerably wealthier, they were defeated and made subjects of Sparta. In this paper, I will discuss Thucydides’ and Socrates’ reasons for why Athens lost the war and then I will present my own theory. Thucydides was a Greek historian who served as a general during the Peloponnesian war. He is often thought of as the father of political realism and one of the first historians to implement strict standards for evidence gathering and analysis. He is also noted for not succumbing to religious biases and beliefs when recounting the history of the Peloponnesian war.

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Thucydides starts by talking about the history of the Athenian and Spartan relationship. Most notably he discusses how Athens became so powerful that war with Sparta was unavoidable. He also talks about his method of collecting evidence and recounting history. Thucydides says that while it is impossible to remember everything exactly as it happened, he recounted the events to the best of his ability. He was present at every event he wrote about or had reliable eyewitnesses present. Reading into Book 1 of the History, we quickly get the impression of what the rest of the world thinks of Athens.

Representatives from Corinth describe the Athenians as being “incapable of either living a quiet life themselves or of allowing anyone else to do so”. Athenians are never happy with what they have. They are greedy always wanting more, for “if their enterprise is successful, they regard that success as nothing more compared to what they will do next. ” This shows that Athens has crossed the line from being ambitious to being avaricious. Corinth seems to be resentful but still reverent towards Athens. The Corinthians do not seem to blame Athens completely for its behavior.

Instead, they hold Sparta partially to blame for letting the balance of power get so out of control. They accuse Sparta of being apathetic to Athenian aggression and for allowing them to build the Athenian long walls in the first place. Athenian representatives that were present at the Spartan assembly never denied any of the Corinthian accusations, let alone apologize for them. However, they were even more arrogant and brazen by replying that they should be praised for being “human enough to enjoy power [and still] pay more attention to justice than they are compelled to do so by their situation. According to the Athenians they deserve every bit of the power they were given after rescuing Hellas from the grip of the Persians. From the first few readings from the History, we see how arrogant the Athenians are. Athens thinks it is the greatest city in the world and it’s entitled to the powerful empire it commands. After several aggressions against Sparta, the Peloponnesians finally have enough. They issue an ultimatum towards Athens essentially saying, “free the people of Hellas! ” The Athenians, with the holier-than-thou attitude are perplexed.

Even before this, at the Spartan assembly, the Athenian reply to the accusations was that surely the Corinthians were treated worse by the Persians and now they complain about us being oppressive. Reading these passages, you get a feeling that both parties are resentful towards each other. The Peloponnesians were resentful because of Athens overstepping its power, and Athens because they felt that its subjects were being ungrateful even though they were being treated with “justice and equality. ” After years of all this enmity building up it was no wonder that the situation escalated into war.

When Sparta gave its ultimatum to Athens, Pericles was more than happy to oblige and go to war. He embodies Athenian arrogance and overzealousness. Pericles speaks to the Athenian assembly convincing them to go to war because according to him, they cannot lose. Pericles explains how Sparta doesn’t have the same financial advantages that Athens does and how Athens has a far superior navy. According to Pericles, the best strategy is to use that to Athens’ advantage, leaving Attica exposed by only attacking and defending the sea were they have an advantage.

Pericles finishes of by saying that Athens possesses all of Sparta’s strengths and none of its weaknesses, and Athens must fight so that future generations will have an Athens that is as good as ever. Pericles was known for being a powerful speaker and in the end, the Athenians took his advice and war soon followed. A year after war broke out, Pericles was once again invited to speak, this time at the customary public funeral for those who had fallen in combat. What follows is arguably the best eulogy in history.

For the families of the fallen soldiers he states that they did not truly die, for “famous men have the whole earth as their memorial…not in any visible form but in people’s hearts, [where] their memory abides and grows. ” Of Athens he says, “Future ages will wonder at us, as the present age wonders at us now. ” Pericles is able to remain optimistic of Athens’ victory and seemingly pass on his hopes and energy to his audience. He glorifies Athens in a way that turns it into a utopian society that inspires the audience to continue to fight for it.

However, Pericles himself was not prepared for the invisible enemy that was to come. The plague first broke out in the outer provinces of the Athenians empire. The summer following the first year of the war, the plague broke out in Athens as well. Doctors were powerless to stop it, so was any other form of science or human art. The plague was not exclusive to any age group or social class. Everyone in Athens got it from the youngest to the very old, from the servants to the very wealthy. Healthy or weak, the plague did not discriminate.

The worst part, according to Thucydides was not the plague itself, but the attitude people adopted once they got ill. He said, “[the sick] would immediately adopt an attitude of utter hopelessness. ” With this loss of hope came a loss of respect for the law. Athens fell into a state of chaos, not only because everyone was plague ridden but because, people thought they had very little time to live. “Thus they resolved to spend their money…on pleasure, since money and life alike seemed equally ephemeral. This is was the turning point for Sparta in the war. The Athenians did not stand a chance in a city where “men [were] dying inside…and the land outside [was] being laid waste. ” The Peloponnesians rarely caught the disease. Many times they fled a town for fear of catching the dreadful plague. It seemed like they were the only ones that were excused from it which demoralized Athens even further since they began to believe that the gods themselves were against them. Only a cocky Athenian general could stay confident in the face of such calamity.

Everyone held Pericles responsible for the disaster that had befallen Athens. Perhaps rightly so, for he was stubborn in solely focusing all his manpower in the sea. Attica was being laid waste while Pericles was sending ships of in expeditions that were rarely successful. His firm belief that Athens’ naval superiority would eventually lead them to victory kept him blind from seeing the insurmountable damage that was being done to the rest of Attica. Pericles’ stubbornness was arguably one of the main reasons Athens lost the war.

Till the Pericles remained convinced that “the Athenians should not march out and offer battle, organizing [instead] an expeditionary force of 100 ships against the Peloponnese. ” In the end, Pericles himself perished because of the plague, and Athens tried to correct its errors but it was too late. Some years following the Peloponnesian war, an Athenian philosopher by the name of Socrates was put on trial for his life. The charges brought against him were as follows: “he inquires into things below the earth and in the sky, and makes the weaker argument defeat the stronger, and teaches other to follow his example. In other words he was executed for disturbing the status quo, for questioning the state of affairs, thinking freely, and teaching others to do the same. That said, Socrates was a soldier in the Peloponnesian war and offered some interesting views on why Athens lost and what is wrong with Athenian society. In the Apology, Socrates talks about how people in power think that they are wiser than they truly are. He visits the Oracle of Delphi and finds that he is the wisest person alive. Any other person would be happy but Socrates cannot leave well enough alone.

He questions the Oracle’s statement essentially saying that he did not feel like he was as wise as the Oracle claimed he was. So Socrates goes on a quest to find someone that is wiser than he, and disprove the Oracle’s claim. On his quest, he goes and speaks with people that have a reputation for being wise. After conversing with them he finds that although the public finds them to be wise, and they hold themselves at high esteem, the wise men are not wise at all. They were unaware of their ignorance, “whereas [Socrates was] quite conscious of [his] ignorance. Socrates found that people with the greatest reputations (politicians, generals, etc. ) were also the most incompetent while those that were supposedly their inferiors were much more noteworthy. Before Socrates’ trial is over, he claims that Athens is the most famous city in the world for its wisdom and power. Athenians however, should feel ashamed for seeking objects that have no value such as money and reputation, instead of giving “attention or thought to truth and understanding and the perfection of [their] souls. For, according to Socrates, wealth does not bring happiness but happiness brings wealth. Alas, this is Athens greatest downfall. My judgment leads me to believe that both Greek intellectuals were right about why Athens fell. First, the Plague mentioned in the History was devastating to Athenian troops, morale and overall society. When it first hit, people thought that the gods had sided with the Peloponnesians. Once they lost hope for their lives and the future of Athens, they began committing all sorts of crimes, and Athens fell into a state of chaos. No fear of god or law of man had a restraining influence. ” Just in one brief excerpt, we find that out of 4,000 Athenian troops that went to battle, 1,050 soldiers fell to the plague. The Spartans themselves were so scared of the plague that they briefly abandoned their invasion of Attica. The Spartans were able to invade Attica so easily because it was essentially left defenseless on Pericles’ orders. Pericles erroneously believed that since their navy was far more superior than Sparta’s they could win the war quickly enough in the sea so that Sparta will be unable to cause much damage in the land.

He was wrong and Sparta destroyed most of Attica eventually tearing down Athens’ long walls and winning the war. Indeed, the Peloponnesian war was Athens’ Vietnam, because like the United States, Athens lost a war that should have been an easy victory, and the Peloponnesians won against impossible odds. Perhaps if the Athenians did not focus on how superior their navy was and focused more on some of their weaknesses they would have stood a much better chance. History has taught us that even the mightiest opponents fall if they lose their heads to arrogance and pride.

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